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[新闻] [2015~2024 完结撒花]『吹响吧!上低音号 久美子3年生篇』动画楼 [剧透请反白]

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发表于 2024-6-27 22:29 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
暴论:一切都和主义都可以靠伏线和演出糊弄过去
但京吹3没有伏线的空间和演出的能力了…
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:29 | 显示全部楼层
有个群友是多伦多大学的老师,他发邮件问了他们音乐系的教授,教授回复邮件说,他评价这两份音频考虑的主要因素之一是有人吹错了,tonal match。错的应该是阿黄吹的。
他还提到了两种乐器的coherence,不过并没有说谁的比较高......
这个算是pro的分析里权威度比较高的了
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:29 | 显示全部楼层
0aleph37 发表于 2024-6-27 22:27
真由获得了任性,丽奈获得了取舍,久美子获得了压抑…

久美子获得了贯彻自己信念的机会并且以身证道完成了变成做正确事情的大人的蜕变
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:33 | 显示全部楼层
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 22:22
我觉得久美子选拔soli唯一的想法是和丽奈一起演奏,实力至上反而是她在尊重丽奈和泷老师,所以我不觉得这 ...

实力至上反而是她在尊重丽奈和泷老师,你确定吗,这不是她自己的追求吗。
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:33 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 无限舰制 于 2024-6-27 22:39 编辑
elsadesica 发表于 2024-6-27 22:09
本质不在于丽奈是否能完全地判断两人的具体实力。
而是丽奈是否把票投给了她认为更好的那个。这个认为不 ...

主观判断好坏也没问题(不如说很合理)
但这样就变成了,社团里对音乐的主观判断标准分裂了,而且还是很均等的分裂
而且双方都算是贯彻了实力至上原则
那……

我前面也说了,主观标准和人情不通过一些特别的机制是没法甄别的,外在表现几乎一样

面对这个现状,也许选谁上确实无关紧要,因为实力难分高下
但社团里需要一场关于音乐表现风格和标准的大讨论了,这才是更严重的问题

人可以持有主观判断,但不能在合作项目上审美过于分裂

选人这件事,确实没法抵达绝对客观,但至少应该有一定程度的共识,实在没法客观评价的部分再自由心证

纯主观的弊端是,大家要参赛,毕竟不是闹着玩
如果有人觉得吹得响就是好听,这种审美固然不该苛责,但至少不该用在票选里


总之这就是个连环陷阱,如果认为选票分裂是评价标准不同,对于团体项目这种标准差异是个不好的兆头
如果认为大家评价标准一致,则会出现有一半人没能力分辨好坏的问题——这一点也不小

确实存在一种理想情况,即大家判断标准一致,两人实力也确实不相上下,只是在个人自由心证的部分评判和喜好不同,这种小的不同不影响团队合作
这才是一种“安全的分裂”

但在目前的剧情表达中,这种安全的分裂和上述潜在问题不小的分裂全部混同在一起,无从得知实情
除非设计更进一步的票选来获取更多的信息

【对于单纯就音乐而言哪段演奏个人觉得比较好的投票】
【对于谁该得到这个位置的投票】

而且至少得是不记名投票……



说到底是50:50不行,哪怕安排一半真听不出来的新生弃权呢……


虽然最后一切都可以用“这soli本来也没那么重要,看给大家闹的,票选主要意义是政治表态”来解释
但这种心态真的尊重实力吗……
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:33 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
一觉睡到大天亮 发表于 2024-6-27 22:29
久美子获得了贯彻自己信念的机会并且以身证道完成了变成做正确事情的大人的蜕变 ...

成人的蜕变是应该能算是我最无感的母题之一了
虽然我很喜欢12集情节设置的趣味性
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:36 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
京都就该把两段音频提前发出来让全世界的网友们评选出更好的一段
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:36 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:36 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
琴吹 发表于 2024-6-27 22:29
有个群友是多伦多大学的老师,他发邮件问了他们音乐系的教授,教授回复邮件说,他评价这两份音频考虑的主要 ...

有截图吗

— from HONOR MAA-AN10, Android 13 of S1 Next Goose v2.5.2-play
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:37 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:38 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 NakanoAzusa 于 2024-6-27 22:40 编辑
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 22:22
我觉得久美子选拔soli唯一的想法是和丽奈一起演奏,实力至上反而是她在尊重丽奈和泷老师,所以我不觉得这 ...

不认同 实力至上反而是她在尊重丽奈和泷老师
我认为这是久美子自己也有的追求
soli也是久美子的追求 不过分先后 实力至上对于久美子来说绝对大于和丽奈一起soli 丽奈也一样
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:42 | 显示全部楼层
要是小高前面按剧本走
选人的时候选了小黄
然后山顶上向阿黄哭诉自己背叛了音乐
会不会被一群人骂绿茶
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:43 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:43 | 显示全部楼层
香辣鸡腿饭套餐 发表于 2024-6-27 21:56
演出不到位尤其是s1经常出现的用音乐来诠释的部分确实不到位,是有这个问题,但这个其实也是双向的:如果 ...

久美子确实表现出了渴望共同soli,但是没有演出对音乐的热爱,不知道你能不能理解我的这个看法。
遗憾很简单啊,观众感情的投射点,加上这一季久美子太苦了呗,又喜欢她又觉得她辛苦,那不就想要她实现愿望么。

和优子的风格确实不一样,但是不意味着久美子没有付出很多心力,也不意味着久美子不需要自己的夏纪。久美子更偏向于观察、沟通,然后行动,但是过程中会一直保持关注。优子的母性和威权突出,好处是整体氛围相对和谐,不会出现太激烈的矛盾,问题解决一桩是一桩,但是2人领导团队还是太累了。久美子温和,善倾听广观察,应对问题更婉转,但是来自各方的思虑容易堆积在自己心里。

新小说短篇不知道你看了吗,里面关于久美子和后几代人的处事风格还挺有意思的。久美子其实承袭了优子的部分风格,但是小奏和梨梨花完全是另一套,然后沙里又有点像久美子
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:43 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:45 | 显示全部楼层
脚本水平 发表于 2024-6-27 22:42
要是小高前面按剧本走
选人的时候选了小黄
然后山顶上向阿黄哭诉自己背叛了音乐

那丽奈才真跟烂完没区别,部长失格里泷卫兵实锤,大家就会得到丽奈心里泷大于久美子大于实力至上,你想想那是什么形象吧
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:47 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:48 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:50 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 22:36
对,我是这么想的,久美子到最后获得了成长,从放弃音大到成为正确的人,最后向丽奈哭诉,她本来就褪去了 ...

不太认同,久美子对丽奈所憧憬的是丽奈追求特别,不随波逐流的态度。这是始终没变的,音乐也只是组成其的一部分。武吹中也反复强调丽奈是特别的,特别在武吹的几组关系性中都是关键词。
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:52 | 显示全部楼层
太阳寺太守 发表于 2024-6-27 22:36
有截图吗

— from HONOR MAA-AN10, Android 13 of S1 Next Goose v2.5.2-play

有...但是码掉个人信息会没有说服力,发出个人信息我担心没征求过教授的意见不妥,所以先存着了。
头衔翻译过来是音乐教育与表演系教授
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:53 | 显示全部楼层
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 22:43
所以应该是两个人都在做了取舍,两人对于音乐的理念还是相同的
但是我认为丽奈是在二选一中主动放弃了sol ...

其实是久美子在盲选的时候就代表向丽奈发出了实力至上和soli的选择的问题,丽奈回答了久美子的问题,所以是两人一起选择了放弃了soli,少一个人的选择就不会达成失去soli的结局,所以是两个人都主动选择了自己的原则。
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:53 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 22:56 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:04 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 香辣鸡腿饭套餐 于 2024-6-27 23:08 编辑
黯淡星尘 发表于 2024-6-27 22:43
久美子确实表现出了渴望共同soli,但是没有演出对音乐的热爱,不知道你能不能理解我的这个看法。
遗憾很 ...

就还是音乐的缺失使得很多演出显得很干,老问题了。还有很多问题看了ep13再说吧,一年之诗做得什么样对于很多问题都有决定性的影响。
还没看,等有了正式一点的翻译再看,当年云武吹的时候被翻译误导了不少。
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:06 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 狂热飞鸟 于 2024-6-27 23:08 编辑
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 22:56
这个倒也确实,我是想到这个应该是久美子想到自己做正确的人时候的反应,所以我觉得这个时候她之所以盲选 ...

怎么说呢,我觉得对所有人公平原则里包含了实力至上原则,所以她盲选的时候就决定了要实力至上,不过说贯彻了原则确实是在支持真由的时候。就向丽奈一直决定了要实力至上,选真由的时候才算贯彻了原则。
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:10 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
一般都是动画做的好,带动原作
武田可能自己都没想到,明明风评一般的自己的原作,却因为动画做烂被带动起来了。
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:11 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:13 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:15 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 狂热飞鸟 于 2024-6-27 23:22 编辑

看番外武田是让秀久好像在一起了
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:15 | 显示全部楼层
https://t.bilibili.com/946583132501442563
这个up就是洗足音大的,他也提到了久美子有地方吹失误了。
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:22 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 zzybot 于 2024-6-27 23:36 编辑

只要想,久美子吊打黑江或者黑江吊打久美子都可以,剧情上的混乱难道要靠吹奏找补?吹奏本身就是剧情的一环有啥可分析的。

投票的矛盾点就在于人情和实力,京吹1的投票能被接受就在于明显的实力差距和人情的对抗,但是到了京吹3肯定不能原原本本的再玩一遍,结果就整出了55开这种烂活
—— 来自 鹅球 v3.0.0.82-alpha
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:24 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 adso 于 2024-6-27 23:32 编辑
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 23:13
属于环大陆好评了,我也不知道这玩意和莉可丽丝,到底哪个现象更有意思,老师说我看今天热搜没有武田绫乃 ...

MAL喷的可真情实感了

Kyoto animations have absolutely fumbled this series, there are of course unforseen events and things that have lead to this unsatisfactory conclusion but the mishandling of characters and Events have unfortunately lead them with no other choice than to stray from the satisfying canon. Not giving enough screentime to flesh out characters and relationships, focusing on characters no one cares about and setting us up with mayu who has done nothing all season due to lack of episodes yet we're expected to happily go along with her winning the soli when she isn't even supposed to in the source material? No one cares for the second years because the movie gave us no time to care. Season 1 and 2 of hibike euphonium will always have a place in my heart, they're what this series is when done correctly. Each school year should have been 26ish episodes, this series could have flourished and been a perfect adaptation. I'm just so disappointed with the direction kyoani took this and with the soli blunder for literally no reason.

The 1 is for there only being one reason for you to watch this far into hibike euphonium which is the stunning animation. Just know that everything you watch from episode 11 may as well be a Re:zero IF route. Kumiko won.
Reviewer’s Rating: 1
The third season was ruined from the moment a transfer student joined. This bitch kept asking Kumiko if she should give up competing, but clearly, she never thought of quitting. So why did she keep asking then? If she wanted to quit, she could have done it anytime. What was she trying to prove by asking these stupid questions multiple times? To show her kindness? Innocence? I don't get it. This kind of hypocritical personality is just disgusting. Imagine poor Kumiko having to listen to her bullshit for a whole year while holding back the anger not to slap this mayonnaise bitch deep inside. Despite being introduced in a jarringly unpleasant manner, they force a redemption arc at the end where Mayu recalls her experiences and opens up to Kumiko, trying to justify her twisted and contradictory character. This attempt to sugarcoat her character is cringe af.

Then in episode 12, there is a class vote on soli. The vote ended in a tie, and Reina cast the deciding vote. Knowing that which was Kumiko's play (which Reina admit it later), she heartlessly eliminated her own friend. So after all the times she told Kumiko she wanted to play together, when she have a chance to decide, and she chose this? Just so you know, the audience vote was split 50/50, meaning both were equally good. There wasn't a huge gap like it'd ruin the whole performance if Kumiko did the soli. Even if Reina had the slightest desire to play with Kumiko, she would have chosen lil Kumiko, but she didn't.

I don't understand why the Kyoto decided to hard push this so-called "aesthetics of regret" on this episode. Not sure what Kyoto trying to express. Are you aiming to show the harsh reality in the work? If we're really talking about realism, they should have lost during the Kansai competition already. Can Kumiko's motivational speech in the last minute save a team that's been collapsed in reality? Lol. And now you're trying to sell me this BS plot where Kumiko, even if she plays at the same level as NPC, has to be a loser just for your cringe harsh reality plot need? Taking away Kumiko's rightful achievements in the light novel to push a storyline about meritocratic regret is an extremely exaggerated, arrogant and lazy adaptation.

All it does is show that Kumiko and Reina's three-year friendship and performance chemistry mean nothing compared to a NPC. Also I don't know about others, but before the results were announced, I honestly felt the second performance was better. So, what was Reina's criteria for not choosing Kumiko? Or is it just obvious that this is some forced BS plot? or to make the audience felt again the same old melodramatic plot already repeated in the first season? In this last season? Really? Do you have something new?

And the utterly useless and incompetent teacher. When the club faces internal pressure before Kansai competition, you as an **, don't step up to say a word, pushing everything onto Kumiko and letting the club fend for itself. Kumiko has to shoulder everything on her own, and then there's Reina, only makes things worse in managing the club with zero EQ. It's funny when facing a controversial situation, Reina would always speak up for her beloved teacher, trust him and simp brainlessly, but when came to when both player are equally good, she has zero trust, zero sense that her music bestie, who has been training together with her all the time, can perform better than a NPC in the final. Reina what are you smoking in this season?

At the very least, if Kyoto Animation really wanted to emphasize the performance gap and meritocratic ideology, and have Kumiko realize she's still not as good as Mayo, they could have had the teacher choose Mayo directly in the first place. Isn't he a music expert can make decision? The way he dumped this mess on the students, making them vote to handle it, made him look like a awful teacher. Anyhow, it would have been much better than holding this ridiculous mass voting, resulting in a tie and then Kumiko losing for no reason. This is an insult.

In the last Kansai competition, Taki chose Mayu over Kumiko because he was certain Mayu's skills were superior, which made sense and was reasonable. However, this time it's different. When both are of the same level, if Taki were wise enough, he would decisively choose Kumiko to avoid affecting team morale. In big competitions, especially finals, morale is more important than that 0.01 point. Not to say having a mass vote and putting that controversial result's pressure on the team member. I think that's a major failure as a music teacher.

Obviously, Hanada created this scenario just so there would be a plot where Reina could prove she remains as the "special one" by eliminating her friend in this way, and nothing more. Poor Kumiko... Kyoto really did you dirty there. And I believe a lot of people will start waving the "deep and meaningful realism" flag, convincing themselves and everyone else to swallow this bullshit too, as happens with most melodramatic anime.

After eliminating Kumiko, Reina didn't even offer any comfort on the spot. Instead, she ran up the mountain real quick like it's the best time for exercise. Then start reminisced about not betraying vows to justify this ugly plot. And then Kumiko, despite being sad, still had to climb the stupid mountain way up tired like a dog just to comfort Reina, telling her it's okay. Is this a joke? Kumiko I thought you went up real quick was bout to beat the hell out of this fake bestie with your knucks ready? Then they both cried together with the most beautiful animation I've seen this year, making it look like a beautifully wrapped piece of chocolate that turns out to be a pile of shit when you actually taste it. What weed did Hanada smoke to write such a disgusting storyline, or am I too old for this shit?

Overall, the third season undeniably excels in both animation and voice acting, but the many contrived conflicts created just to spark drama feel tiresome. Tbh, this narrative technique has become stale. It might have felt fresh in the first and second seasons, but continuing the same approach in the last season, trying to make the audience experience the same kind of conflict again, is boring. Just because Reina previously vow to Kumiko, it means that this season Kumiko must be the sacrificial lamb for that promise to supposedly achieve so called character development and a climactic moment.

Imo, this kind of twisted character development is extremely shallow because it implies that no matter how hard Kumiko tries, it's pointless, as it is dictated by the superficial realism melodramatic plot. It's forced by the plot and does not develop naturally. They use this clichéd aesthetic of regret to say that Kumiko has grown after going through all this, forcing her to become a saint who completes everyone else, except herself.
Reviewer’s Rating: 1

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发表于 2024-6-27 23:29 | 显示全部楼层
吹奏是动画制作组用来辅助剧本演出的啊, 你不能用场外因素来倒推剧本啊!

就像曹操白脸 张飞红脸这种扮相标志,你说你去找了个历史学家考据,曹操其实脸不白,张飞其实也不是红脸也不暴躁,这逻辑对嘛?

演出没做好是能力和态度甚至可能是音源压缩问题,但你讨论剧情不是应该对着已有的剧情信息在分析?
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:30 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 野菜一日分 于 2024-6-27 23:38 编辑

喷的真情实感,指分数还有8.63分,全排名79,比第一季都高,睁眼说瞎话是吧。当然我们可以说MAL这个野榜一直是新作高分的,那么在4月档里京吹3也是全部新番的MAL第一,要说一个地区/语言群体里差评起码要向国内一些社区那样刷版差评才算数吧,零星挑几个出来有啥意义,这剧本就是争议性的
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:38 | 显示全部楼层
野菜一日分 发表于 2024-6-27 23:30
喷的真情实感,指分数还有8.63分,全排名79,比第一季都高,睁眼说瞎话是吧。当然我们可以说MAL这个野榜一 ...

12话之前确实没太大争议
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:42 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
琴吹 发表于 2024-6-27 22:52
有...但是码掉个人信息会没有说服力,发出个人信息我担心没征求过教授的意见不妥,所以先存着了。
头衔翻 ...

理解理解

— from HONOR MAA-AN10, Android 13 of S1 Next Goose v2.5.2-play
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:42 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
提示: 作者被禁止或删除 内容自动屏蔽
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:45 来自手机 | 显示全部楼层
野菜一日分 发表于 2024-6-27 23:30
喷的真情实感,指分数还有8.63分,全排名79,比第一季都高,睁眼说瞎话是吧。当然我们可以说MAL这个野榜一 ...

mal的评分还没有第12集呢

—— 来自 鹅球 v3.0.0.82-alpha
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发表于 2024-6-27 23:55 | 显示全部楼层
本帖最后由 adso 于 2024-6-27 23:58 编辑
百合控小受 发表于 2024-6-27 23:42
不是,是第十二集出来之后还是8.63

mal也有单集评分的,前11集一星率一般在2%,12集超过了11%,虽然不像bangumi那么夸张,但也是很两级了。
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发表于 2024-6-28 00:01 | 显示全部楼层
环大陆好评算不上 我前几天去5ch也是争论颇多 但我认为没有国内这么一边倒就是了
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