iphone13还是低频pwm调光吗(相对于12，频率更高，但是高低电平差值更大)

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neosea

我就没听说过哪一个国外品牌这几年的设备用的OLED不是低频PWM的

用户名已注册

说起这个，之前看到一篇文章，有点疑惑。https://www.notebookcheck.net/iP ... splay.505060.0.html

Above 22 % the iPhone goes into 60 Hz mode, a method also commonly used for DC dimming. This maximum brightness achieved in this mode is around 150 nits, which means it will be most commonly used indoors.

这个的意思，说是22%以上的亮度是类DC调光嘛？我看其他的好多评测，都是全程PWM的。

冰凌火焰

就别国外了，国内除了藕丝牌之外，还有谁用高频pwm调光了？
各路KOL搞的对比还都有意无意无视这个。

gugu153

伪dc没用的，oled就是累眼，怎么弄都还不如高频的lcd

当然有些人眼睛特别皮实就是不在乎，我真的相当羡慕

平贺才人

冰凌火焰 发表于 2021-9-15 12:03
就别国外了，国内除了藕丝牌之外，还有谁用高频pwm调光了？
各路KOL搞的对比还都有意无意无视这个。 ...

神tm藕丝牌，我还想了会。。

Heliko

冰凌火焰 发表于 2021-9-15 12:03
就别国外了，国内除了藕丝牌之外，还有谁用高频pwm调光了？
各路KOL搞的对比还都有意无意无视这个。 ...

藕丝牌是什么…我真没想明白

killbeliar

报应啊报应 发表于 2021-9-15 08:40
如题，要还是的话，我还是买个iphone11吧

还可以憋一下，iphone seplus应该是lcd

BallanceHZ

Heliko 发表于 2021-9-15 13:28
藕丝牌是什么…我真没想明白

荣耀

冰凌火焰

Heliko 发表于 2021-9-15 13:28
藕丝牌是什么…我真没想明白

荣耀，“不要再藕断丝连！”

报应啊报应

用户名已注册 发表于 2021-9-15 11:55
说起这个，之前看到一篇文章，有点疑惑。https://www.notebookcheck.net/iP ... splay.505060.0.html

iphone记得不是全程pwm吧，三星记得是类似全程pwm

用户名已注册

报应啊报应 发表于 2021-9-15 22:06
iphone记得不是全程pwm吧，三星记得是类似全程pwm

所以我感觉奇怪这篇文章，不知道是不是我理解错了。

—— 来自 S1Fun

OldGlory

用户名已注册 发表于 2021-9-15 22:31
所以我感觉奇怪这篇文章，不知道是不是我理解错了。

—— 来自 S1Fun

没错，苹果pro机型就是一定亮度以上dc调光。

samfs

*

萌即推

希望京东方的高频pwm OLED尽快推广吧，要不然买不了拍照好的旗舰机子了

ArowRocher

luozicheng 发表于 2021-9-15 22:25
都是全程pwm啊，自己拿个手机调iso照一下的事，三星又不是沙口

快门速度吧

用户名已注册

用户名已注册 发表于 2021-9-15 11:55
说起这个，之前看到一篇文章，有点疑惑。https://www.notebookcheck.net/iP ... splay.505060.0.html

国外的评测看的相对比较少，notebookcheck算不算是一个相对比较权威的评测网站？
因为这个结果的确让我比较疑惑，看到的其他评测基本都是全程低频PWM的。

飞侠小黑

冰凌火焰 发表于 2021-9-15 14:29
荣耀，“不要再藕断丝连！”

p50pro也是高频pwm

—— 来自 OnePlus KB2000, Android 11上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.2.2.1

13号

gugu153 发表于 2021-9-15 13:14
伪dc没用的，oled就是累眼，怎么弄都还不如高频的lcd

当然有些人眼睛特别皮实就是不在乎，我真的相当羡慕[ ...

我就这体质。。。 高刷不高刷之类的也根本感受不出来。
感觉省钱了。

报应啊报应

dvd6

samfs 发表于 2021-9-16 08:48
我用的 Pro 机型调到 100% 亮度还是能看到条纹

只要高亮度不闪或者闪的幅度很小，安卓上有防闪烁app基本能解决这个问题，估计跟国产机的所谓dc调光原理差不多，只是非系统层面的会影响截图效果

404489039

12赢麻了？

samfs

*

zmw_831110

dvd6 发表于 2021-9-27 08:15
只要高亮度不闪或者闪的幅度很小，安卓上有防闪烁app基本能解决这个问题，估计跟国产机的所谓dc调光原理 ...

还是需要内核级的，应用层的不行


探索的dc调光因为是量产版的，比1+8T更狠了一步，把低灰阶容易造成抹布效果的部分都直接压到黑色，抹布效应减弱了，但暗场消失了大片，不过的确低亮度下没1+8T那种灰蒙蒙的感觉了，乍一看，效果比1+8T的dc调光舒服
—— 来自 Xiaomi M2007J3SG, Android 11上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.4.4.1

rak1

Mod% in iPhone 13 Pro is (almost always) 16, sometimes it’s 30, but not 100.

From IEEE 1789 (for frequencies between 90 Hz and 1250 Hz):

Mod% < 0.08x(flicker frequency) for Low-Risk Level
and
Mod% < 0.0333x(flicker frequency) for NOEL (no observable effect level)

For 480 Hz we have:
Mod% should be < 38.4 for low-risk and
Mod% should be < 15.984 for NOEL
.

Ref:
https://forums.macrumors.com/thr ... 12862/post-30352367

Nanachi

rak1 发表于 2021-9-27 09:26
Mod% in iPhone 13 Pro is (almost always) 16, sometimes it’s 30, but not 100.

From IEEE 1789 (for f ...

Whoever says 480Hz PWM on iPhone 13 series is better/improved over 12 Pro is UTTERLY WRONG.

The negative impact of low-freq PWM doesn't only correlate with the frequency but also (as pointed out above) with pulsation coefficient and modulation. iPhone 13 Pro/Max is terrible at both for ALL brightness due to the nature of LPTO.

To dive a bit deeper, iPhone 12 Pro/Max uses DC-like dimming above 25% brightness so that even though there is still PWM, the pulsation coefficient and modulation (<20%) are within the safe range. Below 25% brightness yes it's terrible 240Hz but it can be overcome by setting higher brightness & reducing white points.

On the other hand, iPhone 13 Pro/Max uses 480Hz PWm at ALL brightness with modulation close to 100% so it's in the high risk zone following IEEE PAR 1789 guidelines for low risk (http://www.bio-licht.org/02_resources/info_ieee_2015_standards-1789.pdf) - Figure 18 on page 29.

(Testing video on a Chinese website, no need to read any text: https://is.gd/hLaKm7)

Supposedly iPhone 13/mini should use the same panel as 12 Pro/Max to benefit from the DC-like dimming but from test result - Nope to save cost Apple doesn't do it.

Unfortunately there is no way a user can do about it unlike iPhone 12 Pro/Max. For me personally I am going to return the iPhone 13 Pro which caused discomfort right after 10min of usage and keep my iPhone 12 Pro for the eye comfort (and probably lighter weight)

—— 来自 HUAWEI NOH-AL00, Android 10上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.4.4.1

Nanachi

rak1 发表于 2021-9-27 09:26
Mod% in iPhone 13 Pro is (almost always) 16, sometimes it’s 30, but not 100.

From IEEE 1789 (for f ...

Good question! I think the confusion here is different metrics.

The video you quoted was measuring "Flicker Index" (or Pulsation Coefficient), which is a different metrics from Modulation (Mod %) / Flicker percentage, which IEEE 1789 was using along with frequency to determine risk level, just as you mentioned. They were not using "Flicker Index". Below are the definition taken from http://www.bio-licht.org/02_resources/info_ieee_2015_standards-1789.pdf:
Definition of Flicker Index vs. Modulation.jpg


Picture below is result from a meter that measures not only flicker index but also Mod %. Quick translation for you:

Frequency: 480.19 Hz
Modulation: 97.6 %
Percent Flicker: 95.29%
Flicker Index: 0.306 (Somewhat in line with the Russian folks' video, you see)
Risk alert: High Risk

What's worse is that OP mentioned this kind of high Mod % is detected at all brightness level, which as I mentioned earlier is probably a drawback of LTPO display technology. And to also cut cost on the lower end iPhone 13/mini model, Apple implemented the same PWM policy (480Hz, High Mod % at all brightness) on the entire line (even though in theory iPhone 13/mini could use the same as iPhone 12 Pro)


iPhone 13 Pro PWM Modulation.jpg

—— 来自 HUAWEI NOH-AL00, Android 10上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.4.4.1

rak1

Nanachi 发表于 2021-9-27 09:34
Good question! I think the confusion here is different metrics.

The video you quoted was measurin ...

你复制粘贴好歹把图也转过来啊

ziyuan008

所以结论是什么啊，比12好吗？

报应啊报应

ziyuan008 发表于 2021-9-27 16:37
所以结论是什么啊，比12好吗？

不如12