梦露和赫本有啥粉丝恩怨
B站上连着推送了好几个用梦露来反衬赫本没有演技，人品虚伪的视频。https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1iV411F7eU/?spm_id_from=333.999.0.0
好像知乎还说过梦露是康米同情者，赫本纳粹后人 这个老恩怨了 两人都是好莱坞最火的一批女演员并且都跨越时代成为流行文化icon
在当时 大家都被外表遮住了双眼 梦露是金发无脑 赫本是知性演技派 然后梦露的粉丝也就默认了
然后到了现代 观众平均阅片量比以前多多了 对“演技”这个东西有了更本质了解以后发现原来梦露才是演技派 赫本是被严重高估了梦露粉大反攻
这两人电影我都看，评价是 梦露是真的全方位无死角影坛歌坛跳舞全能， 赫本就只能拍静态，跳舞很尬唱歌更是公鸭嗓。
不信的你们把 梦露的《绅士爱美人》Gentlemen Prefer Blondes (1953)和赫本的《甜姐儿》 Funny Face (1957) 连在一块儿看就明白了
这两部戏都是歌舞唱跳齐全的
粉丝这种东西拉踩不是很正常吗，你看腾讯音乐网易云音乐的只要是复数歌手翻唱过的歌曲留言下面都战得一塌糊涂 b站也是，不管是上世纪末HK影坛女演员，还是jpop平成时代歌手，哪个不是各家粉丝各种捧一个踩一片 B站搜梦露第三条就说她是康米同情者 佛剑分说 发表于 2023-10-29 20:13
粉丝这种东西拉踩不是很正常吗，你看腾讯音乐网易云音乐的只要是复数歌手翻唱过的歌曲留言下面都战得一塌糊 ...
复数歌手是？ 现在饭圈文化的反噬，现在这群人喜欢上什么都会把饭圈那一套代入进去 阿萨辛艾沃尔 发表于 2023-10-29 21:19
复数歌手是？
我没表达清楚，是说同一首歌，不止一个歌手唱过 地刺 发表于 2023-10-29 18:53
这个老恩怨了 两人都是好莱坞最火的一批女演员并且都跨越时代成为流行文化icon
在当时 大家都被外表 ...
印象中梦露生前一直想转型但是没有机遇吧 本帖最后由 杏仁小圆饼 于 2023-10-29 22:43 编辑
尼奥 发表于 2023-10-29 21:51
第一次看到赫本就是那个知名大头照，当时那个年代还没有网络，对一件事物判断全靠杂志那些小编科普。那时自 ...
不是因为当年她的几部电影在国内很受欢迎吗，蒂凡尼的早餐那个纽约交际花经典形象怎么说也算不上保守古典吧。而且完全没看过赫本电影的人也很可能穿过几条“赫本风”tag的裙子，这一点加成非常巨大。
本帖最后由 库瓦特罗.巴吉纳 于 2023-10-29 22:54 编辑
杏仁小圆饼 发表于 2023-10-29 22:30
不是因为当年她的几部电影在国内很受欢迎吗，蒂凡尼的早餐那个纽约交际花经典形象怎么说也算不上保守古典 ...
据某些老人回忆说蓝屏就非常喜欢看《罗马假日》，还要专程用飞机运拷贝给她看，可能也说明了赫本确实更符合亚洲人审美 库瓦特罗.巴吉纳 发表于 2023-10-29 22:50
据某些老人回忆说蓝屏就非常喜欢看《罗马假日》，还要专程用飞机运拷贝给她看，可能也说明了赫本确实更符 ...
“赫本风”都已经变成国内常见的着装打扮标签了，现在淘宝pdd上一搜一大堆，而没有嘉宝风褒曼风费雯丽风，确实泛用性很高 東方仗助 发表于 2023-10-29 18:31
好像知乎还说过梦露是康米同情者，赫本纳粹后人
赫本在二战时是支持荷兰抵抗运动的，曾经跳舞给游击队筹钱，给抵抗组织传递情报
小赫本确实演技平平啊，相比之下梦露简直是天才型演员 赫本确实是吃了审美红利，梦露那个风格实在是美国味太重了。 这两个原来是可以比的吗？
给我的感觉一个是辛巴的话，梦露就是米老鼠
地位根本不是一个水平
只不过大家更喜欢赫本罢了 康米和纳粹，你说能有啥恩怨 没说哪个赫本，那凯瑟琳赫本的演技更好一点 本帖最后由 库瓦特罗.巴吉纳 于 2023-10-30 11:10 编辑
茗夜雨 发表于 2023-10-30 10:26
康米和纳粹，你说能有啥恩怨
梦露这个康米是指54年朝鲜战争刚结束就给驻韩美军劳军，接受裕仁赠送宝石的康米吗？ 梦露是不是康米不知道，但是赫本这个纳粹是指二战给地下抵抗组织传情报给过钱的纳粹？人家的官方传记是这么说的，谁有新资料可以发上来看看，算得上爆炸性 梦露的确漂亮
我个人审美，好莱坞影星除去费雯丽独一档外，梦露可以排在第二档
赫本则的确没有被传闻的那么高的演技 搭车问一句梦露实际发色是不是红色？有没有照片？以前了解过现在忘了 本帖最后由 茗夜雨 于 2023-10-30 11:39 编辑
库瓦特罗.巴吉纳 发表于 2023-10-30 10:58
梦露这个康米是指54年朝鲜战争刚结束就给驻韩美军劳军，接受裕仁赠送宝石的康米吗？ ...
https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1RK4y1878y
梦露的康米倾向可是FBI认证的
转自法国《解放报》（Libération）
https://www.liberationnews.org/marilyn-monroe-targeted-by-html/
“An actress is not a machine, but they treat you like a machine. A money machine.”
── Marilyn Monroe
“女演员不是机器，但他们把你当机器一样对待。一台赚钱的机器。”
──玛丽莲梦露
Fifty years after her death in August 1962, files that document the FBI’s close scrutiny of actress Marilyn Monroe have finally been released. The files, not made available without extensive redactions until now, show that the star, highly exploited and at the same time greatly admired by millions of people around the world, was the target of intense FBI surveillance. This was because of her close association with communist activists, militant trade unionists and other left-leaning currents in the U.S. political movement, especially in the months prior to her untimely death.
FBI surveillance began after Monroe—along with other entertainers—applied for a visa, to visit the Soviet Union in 1955, and continued until her death in 1962.
在她于 1962 年 8 月去世 50 年后，记录联邦调查局对女演员玛丽莲梦露进行密切审查的文件终于被公布。这些文件直到现在都没有经过大量编辑才提供，表明这位被高度利用并同时受到全球数百万人高度钦佩的明星是 FBI 密切监视的目标。这是因为她与**活动家、激进的工会成员和美国政治运动中的其他左倾势力密切相关，尤其是在她英年早逝的前几个月。
1955 年梦露和其他艺人申请签证访问苏联后，FBI 开始监视，一直持续到 1962 年她去世。
In addition to her associations with communists and left-leaning liberals of the day, the files show that the FBI was especially concerned about Monroe’s contacts with American ex-patriot Frederick Vanderbilt Field, residing in Mexico, who himself had been disinherited by his ruling-class family due to his leftist views. Of particular note in the FBI files is an account of a trip that she took to visit Field in Mexico several months before her death.
In his autobiography, “From Right to Left,” Field described Monroe’s deep passion for justice:
”She told us about her strong feelings for civil rights,” he wrote, “for black equality, as well as her admiration for what was being done in China, her anger at red-baiting and McCarthyism and her hatred of (FBI director) J. Edgar Hoover.”
除了她与当时的**者和左倾自由主义者的关系外，文件显示，联邦调查局特别关注梦露与居住在墨西哥的美国前爱国者弗雷德里克范德·比尔特·菲尔德的联系，后者本人已被他的统治剥夺了继承权──阶级家庭由于他的左派观点。联邦调查局文件中特别值得注意的是她在去世前几个月访问墨西哥菲尔德的一次旅行。
在他的自传《从右到左》中，菲尔德描述了梦露对正义的深切热情：
“她告诉我们她对公民权利的强烈感情，”他写道，“对黑人平等，以及她对中国正在做的事情的钦佩，她对红色诱饵和麦卡锡主义的愤怒以及她对联邦调查局局长埃德加·胡佛的仇恨。”
In the months prior to her death, members of Monroe’s inner circle, including her hair dresser, interior decorator and therapist, became alarmed at her growing interest in and embrace of communist ideas. These individuals and others became informants reporting directly to the FBI.
They reported, for example, that a “mutual infatuation” had developed between Field and Monroe. “This situation caused considerable dismay among Miss Monroe’s entourage,” the file states.
在梦露去世前的几个月里，她的核心圈子成员，包括她的理发师、室内设计师和治疗师，对她日益增长的对**思想的兴趣和接受程度感到震惊。这些人和其他人成为了直接向联邦调查局报告的线人。
例如，他们报告说，菲尔德和梦露之间已经发展出一种“相互迷恋”。文件中写道：“这一情况在梦露小姐的随行人员中引起了相当大的不安。”
Facts and contradictions surrounding Monroe’s death leave many questions about how she died. To date, the conclusion by Los Angeles Coroner Thomas Noguchi remains that Monroe died by **, in spite of the many unanswered questions.
The recently published files attest to the fact that her ties to the liberal establishment and to Communist Party organizers caused great concern among the power elite, particularly the FBI under notorious Director J. Edgar Hoover. Her open disdain for the anti-communist witch-hunt under McCarthyism, which destroyed the careers of many of her peers in the Hollywood film industry, without a doubt could have made her a potential target for violence.
围绕梦露之死的事实和矛盾给她的死因留下了许多疑问。到目前为止，洛杉矶验尸官托马斯·野口的结论仍然是梦露是自杀身亡，尽管有许多悬而未决的问题。
最近公布的文件证明，她与自由派建制派和共产党组织者的关系引起了权力精英的极大担忧，特别是在臭名昭着的局长J·埃德加·胡佛领导下的联邦调查局。她公开蔑视麦卡锡主义领导下的反**政治迫害，这一行动摧毁了她在好莱坞电影业的许多同行的职业生涯，毫无疑问，这可能会使她成为暴力的潜在目标。
Under Hoover’s watch, the FBI kept tabs on the political and social lives of many celebrities, including Frank Sinatra, Charlie Chaplin and Monroe’s ex-husband, playright Arthur Miller, who wrote “Death of a Salesman” and “The Crucible.”
In addition, Monroe had immense star power and a loyal base of millions of working-class fans worldwide who could potentially have been affected by her pro-worker/leftist views.
在胡佛的监督下，联邦调查局密切关注着许多名人的政治和社交生活，包括弗兰克·西纳特拉、查理·卓别林和梦露的前夫、剧作家阿瑟·米勒，后者曾撰写过《推销员之死》和《大熔炉》。
此外，梦露拥有巨大的明星影响力和全球数百万工人阶级忠实粉丝的基础，这些粉丝可能会受到她亲工人/左翼观点的影响。
The facts in the FBI files show that Monroe, in spite of her superstar status and exploitation as a sex object under capitalism, never lost her passion for justice and equality. Against the sexist “dumb blond” image of Monroe created by the Hollywood bosses, examination of her life reveals a deeply thoughtful and sensitive woman who, behind the camera, read, studied and involved herself with social issues
As a super-exploited commodity in a sexist world, where women are degraded and made objects of violence, she continued to deepen her allegiance to the class from which she came, the working class, and in the years leading up to her death was taking to heart the principles of socialism and communism as the way forward for humanity.
联邦调查局档案中的事实表明，尽管梦露拥有超级巨星的地位和资本主义下性对象的剥削，但她从未失去对正义和平等的热情。与好莱坞老板们塑造的性别歧视“金发女郎”梦露形象相比，对她生活的审视揭示了一个深思熟虑和敏感的女人，她在镜头后阅读、研究并参与社会问题。
在性别歧视的世界里，作为一个超级剥削的商品，女性被贬低并成为暴力的对象，她继续加深对她所在的阶级── 工人阶级的忠诚，在她去世前的几年里把社会主义和**的原则作为人类前进的道路。
作者：我是传奇T2 https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv18591814/?from=search 出处：bilibili
qtk9599 发表于 2023-10-30 11:05
梦露是不是康米不知道，但是赫本这个纳粹是指二战给地下抵抗组织传情报给过钱的纳粹？人家的官方传记是这么 ...
官方传记那玩意不跟回忆录，常公日记是一个性质的玩意么
赫本她妈当年的两篇雄文，一个是FXS的呼唤，一个是赞扬洗头佬的美德
https://www.oswaldmosley.com/audrey-hepburn-the-mosley-connection/
https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv17878914/
In 1939, Ella, now divorced, moved with Audrey to Arnhem, the Netherlands, where her parents lived. Ella’sfather, Baron van Heemstra, had been the mayor of Arnhem from 1910-1920. Then, in May 1940, the Nazis invaded the Netherlands. Ella and Audrey would spend the entire war years in Arnhem. Ella liked to drink and she liked to have a good time. She openly fraternized with the German officers, inviting them into the family home, and going out with them in their cars, even crossing the border and driving into Germany for entertainment.
Once she organized a cultural evening in Dusseldorf, Germany, along with the regional head of the NSB (the Dutch Nazi Party). The illegal press of the Dutch Resistance suspected the Baroness of being an agent for the Gestapo (the Nazi secret police).
She worked for the German Red Cross in the Diaconessenhuis (hospital) in Arnhem, nursing wounded German soldiers. Before the war, Ella had displayed a Nazi swastika and a German eagle on the wall of her house in Arnhem.
After the war, with the BUF now banned, Ella concentrated her energies in forging ties with people who could further her daughter Audrey’s career in becoming a prima ballerina, then a model, followed by a film star. They lived in Amsterdam for a time and then The Hague before settling in London. Meanwhile, after walking out on his family in May 1935, Audrey Hepburn’s father had become involved in a corporation with financial ties to the Third Reich. In 1938 he was being investigated by both the Belgium Parliament and the British House of Commons: Mr. Joseph Ruston, a director of the European Press Agency, Ltd. was alleged in the Belgian parliament to have received £110,000 from German industrial chiefs in close touch with Dr. Goebbels to publish an anti-communist newspaper.” His two business partners at the European Press Agency were a Nazi lawyer and a member of the Gestapo.
1939年，现已离婚的埃拉和奥黛丽搬到了她父母居住的荷兰阿纳姆。埃拉的父亲范·海姆斯特拉男爵曾在1910年── 1920年间担任阿纳姆市市长。然后，在1940年5月，纳粹入侵荷兰。埃拉和奥黛丽将在阿纳姆度过整个战争年代。埃拉喜欢喝酒，她喜欢玩得开心。她公开与德国官员友好相处，邀请他们进入家中，并与他们一起开车外出，甚至越过边境，驱车进入德国娱乐。
有一次，她和NSB(荷兰纳粹党)的地区负责人一起在德国杜塞尔多夫组织了一次文化晚会。荷兰抵抗运动的非法媒体怀疑男爵夫人是盖世太保(纳粹秘密警察)的特工。
她在阿纳姆的Diaconessenhuis(医院)为德国红十字会工作，护理受伤的德国士兵。战前，埃拉曾在她位于阿纳姆的房子的墙上展示过纳粹党徽和一只德国鹰。
战后，随着BUF现在被禁止，埃拉集中精力与一些人建立联系，这些人可以进一步发展她女儿奥黛丽的事业，成为一名首席芭蕾舞演员，然后是一名模特，然后是一名电影明星。他们在阿姆斯特丹住了一段时间，然后在海牙住了一段时间，然后定居在伦敦。与此同时，在1935年5月抛弃家人后，奥黛丽·赫本的父亲加入了一家与第三帝国有经济联系的公司。1938年，他同时接受比利时议会和英国下议院的调查：欧洲通讯社董事约瑟夫·鲁斯顿先生被比利时议会指控从与戈培尔博士密切联系的德国工业领袖那里收受了11万英镑，以出版一份**报纸。
.....
In May 1955, the British security services believed that Joseph Ruston was dead. They had been watching him closely since the 1930s because they regarded him as a very dangerous man, a potential traitor, a fascist who had strong links with National Socialists in Belgium and Germany and possibly a spy. Ten years before, he’s been released from detention without trial under what became known as Regulation 18B, a legal device that enabled the British government to lock people up for being a member of a political party, in Ruston’s case the British Union of Fascists (BUF), Oswald Mosley’s Blackshirts. In fact, Joseph Ruston was very much alive and not only that, his daughter was internationally famous, perhaps at the height of her career as a Hollywood actress. Around this time Audrey Hepburn starred in Roman Holiday (1953), Sabrina (1954) and was about to make Funny Face (1957).
1955年5月，英国安全部门认为约瑟夫·鲁斯顿已经死亡。自20世纪30年代以来，他们一直密切关注他，因为他们认为他是一个非常危险的人，一个潜在的叛徒，一个与比利时和德国的国家社会党有密切联系的法西斯分子，还可能是一名间谍。十年前，他未经审判就被释放，根据后来被称为18B规则的规定，这是一种法律手段，允许英国政府将作为政党成员的人关押起来，在鲁斯顿的案件中，是英国法西斯主义者联盟(BUF)，奥斯瓦尔德·莫斯利的黑衫。事实上，约瑟夫·鲁斯顿还活着，不仅如此，他的女儿在国际上也很有名，也许是在她作为好莱坞女演员的职业生涯的巅峰时期。大约在这段时间，奥黛丽·赫本主演了《罗马假日》(1953)、《萨布丽娜》(1954)和《笑脸》(1957)。
But all the time she （Hepburn）'feared Ella's Nazi past would kill her career but still, they remained close', Matzen writes.Ella had been investigated by Dutch police who concluded that she had been 'unreliable' in her support for her country but did not punish her.……Hepburn was also fearful that people would discover that between 1942 and 1944 she danced in ballets where German soldiers were likely in the audience. she was 'never' to talk about her performance in the Schouwburg theater in Arnhem between 1942 and 1944 even though they were the 'greatest accomplishments of her life' for a woman who longed to be a dancer, not an actress.注意，Dutch police concluded that she had been 'unreliable' in her support for her country but did not punish her.
奥黛丽赫本一直担心埃拉的纳粹历史会扼杀她的职业生涯，但马岑写道，他们仍然很亲密。
荷兰**对埃拉进行了调查，他们得出结论认为，埃拉在支持自己的国家方面是“不可靠的”，但没有惩罚她。
赫本还担心人们会发现，在1942年至1944年期间，她在芭蕾舞中跳舞，观众中可能有德国士兵。她从未谈论过自己1942年至1944年间在阿纳姆舒堡剧院的表演，尽管对于一个渴望成为舞蹈家而不是演员的女人来说，这些是她一生中最伟大的成就。
注意，荷兰**得出结论认为，她对国家的支持是不可靠的，但没有对她进行惩罚。 作者：我是传奇T2 https://www.bilibili.com/read/cv17878914/ 出处：bilibili
回忆录，日记是可以瞎写的，传记还是要严谨一点，做过的事可以不写，但不能瞎写。至于她老爹老娘的问题，说到她身上我觉得还是有点牵强的。举例来说，傅作义，陈布雷女儿和她们老头子想法一样不？ 茗夜雨 发表于 2023-10-30 11:37
官方传记那玩意不跟回忆录，常公日记是一个性质的玩意么
赫本她妈当年的两篇雄文，一个是FXS的呼 ...
你这个出处链接点进去味儿也太冲了，同样是西方知名绯闻，赫本和肯尼迪传的绯闻就是婚外情大揭秘，梦露和肯尼迪传的绯闻就是辟谣 杏仁小圆饼 发表于 2023-10-29 22:30
不是因为当年她的几部电影在国内很受欢迎吗，蒂凡尼的早餐那个纽约交际花经典形象怎么说也算不上保守古典 ...
蒂凡尼好像是作者本身也不满意，觉得演得不像交际花 yysy，蒂凡尼现在看来确实是烂片
—— 来自 Realme RMX1851, Android 11上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.5.4 风怒
—— 来自 Realme RMX1851, Android 11上的 S1Next-鹅版 v2.5.4 本帖最后由 Jet.Black 于 2023-10-31 08:18 编辑
梦露可是死了60年了，70年老粉还能上网？
点进来还以为凯瑟琳 原来是午后红茶 moliyumi 发表于 2023-10-31 08:59
谁说死人就不能有新粉了，死了几千年的都有大把新粉呢
冉闵 汪达 发表于 2023-10-30 12:04
你这个出处链接点进去味儿也太冲了，同样是西方知名绯闻，赫本和肯尼迪传的绯闻就是婚外情大揭秘，梦露和 ...
赫本和肯尼迪也有一腿？这个八卦居然之前没听到过 我觉得她俩演技差距就是你让梦露演赫本可以，但是赫本演不了梦露 见证生物多样性了属于是，这两人生前都没什么交集吧
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